My SI6.OH-11 keeps jumping to 60Hz.

  • Hi I am in France but speak English.


    My SI6.OH-11 keeps jumping to 60Hz.


    I Have recently purchased a New SI6.OH-11. So I can add AC Coupling to my 9 buildings Sustainability Community Project system here in Normandy, France
    .
    I have been using APC 5000va UPS Inverters.
    My Power sources are :- 5kW on PV Trackers, 90amps at charge rate 56vdc, Tristar MPPT & Midnite Classic 200.
    3 off Hugh Piggott design Wind Turbines with a normal 3.4kW, 66amps. These 3 wind turbines have 3 Tristar Controllers set for PWM Dumping to 6kW of heaters.
    Max DC Charging can therefore be 156amps into my 1100ah batteries.

    I am now installing AC Coupling with Static PV arrays. At present I have 2.5kW of PV coupled to a SB3800 which is set in Island Mode, Off Grid..


    I keep re-setting the SI6.OH-11 for, ….. Off Grid Mode, 230v50Hz, VRLA, 48v, 1100ah, PV Only,
    We do not have a generator.


    I have contacted the SMA Helpline, they showed/told me on the telephone how to reset the SI6 back to factory settings. The SMA Specialist said, “You have to much DC Coupling” and then said “The SI does not like Over Voltage on the DC”.

    When I do the setting up process for the battery sensor process, and apply DC coupling the SI6.OH-11 Inverter goes straight to 60Hz 230v output.


    Obviously certain electrical Items in our buildings will not work on 60Hz.


    I do not think that the DC coupling is the problem, do any of the Forum members have any solutions please.


    Please remember that this was a very expensive Inverter for us, as we have very little money, but we did think that this SI 6 would take us into the Future of AC Coupling.


    Thanks for any help,

    Everything is Possible, Just give me Time.
    5kW PV Trackers, 3off HughP 3.7m dia Wind Turbines, 2.5kW PV. SI6,SB3800,SB3000,SB1200 Midnite Cnt, Tristar MPPT cnt, 3 off PWM Tristar Cnt, 48vdc 1100ah VRLA.

  • Zitat von clockmanfran

    I have contacted the SMA Helpline, they showed/told me on the telephone how to reset the SI6 back to factory settings. The SMA Specialist said, “You have to much DC Coupling” and then said “The SI does not like Over Voltage on the DC”.

    When I do the setting up process for the battery sensor process, and apply DC coupling the SI6.OH-11 Inverter goes straight to 60Hz 230v output.


    Hi.. As i see you already got an answer from SMA ... Just remove some of your dc chargers.. So you will see is there is any influence


    regards Peter

    Wohnhaus 100% OFFGRIDInsel: 13,47kwp,5xMppt,BMV700,CCGX,2xMultiplus 5000, OPzS/PzS => 4150Ah/c100/48V
    TeichInsel: 930wp, 2xVictron Mppt 100/15, BMV600, SolarixPI 1100, 400Ah/OPzS 24V

    100% PVInsel Liveview | SDM630 Logger | INSEL WIKI

    "Denn auch eine Beziehung muss wie eine Insel sein. Man muss sie nehmen, wie sie ist, in ihrer Begrenzung - eine Insel, umgeben von der wechselvollen Unbeständigkeit des Meeres, immer während vom Steigen und Fallen der Gezeiten berührt." Anne Lindbergh

  • Thank you 'pezibaer'.Peter. I have removed some of my DC Coupling, but I can now replicate the fault with the SI6 Inverter jumping to 60HZ.


    So I KNOW what to look for, and IMPORTANTLY what to AVOID. With this particular model of SI6, (SI6.OH-11) and its software version of 2014.


    My Problem Is the Shunt Current Sensor set up stuff.


    I will allow SMA 2 weeks to respond to my 2 emails. At present SMA have not acknowledged my emails, and hopefully offer some advice. I have tried telephoning SMA but the phone just rings and I am on constant hold.


    AT least I now know what the FAULT is.

    I will post the issue/bug/conflict problem and the FIX, or the bit to be careful with and double check. I will post on the Australian Forums with Dave, and US Forums.............


    At least my information might help other SI owners/users in the Future, but first I await SMA's response..

    Everything is Possible, Just give me Time.
    5kW PV Trackers, 3off HughP 3.7m dia Wind Turbines, 2.5kW PV. SI6,SB3800,SB3000,SB1200 Midnite Cnt, Tristar MPPT cnt, 3 off PWM Tristar Cnt, 48vdc 1100ah VRLA.

  • The problem is that the DC-chargers don't have the same charging objectives than the SI 6.0H. So when DC-chargers"like" to charge on higher voltage, the SI 6.0 responds with frequency shifting in order to lower power coming in (frequency shift power control - FSPC); as the DC-chargers don't respond on the higher frequency, the SI keeps on rising frequency until complete disconnection of the Sunny Boy and even beyond this.
    Solutions:
    1.) set up DC-chargres with lower charging objectives so that they only assist until float-voltage setup of the SI. Problem: probably you won't be able to charge completely the battery if only the SB3800 keeps on charging (or supplying power for charge).
    2.) use MNSICOMM from Midnite Solar in order to establish communication betwen the Midnite and the SI. So the SI will have complete control over the Midnite and will first lower Midnites power before starting with FSPC.
    3.) use the builtin relais of the SI 6.0 for diversion of excess power. You will need a resistive consumer connected by means of an SSR (solid state relay) to this output. Usually this resistive consumer is a immersion heater in a water tank. You have to take care that the volume of the tank is big enough to absorb all the surplus energy. The best thing about it is that you'll have the surplus energy stored as hot water which you can (should) use in your house/facilities.


    Best regards.

  • Thank you PV-Insel for the information.


    My Dc charging sources charge direct to the 48vdc batteries that the SI6 is also running from the same batteries.


    I have installed the SI DC 'Battery Current Sensor Shunt' so the SI can see the batteries being charged from other sources. This DC 'Battery Current Sensor Shunt' is described in the SI Installation Manual.


    If SMA told me that the SI6 CAN NOT TAKE DC COUPLING IN THEIR MANUAL or SPECIFICATIONS I would Have not have spent/purchased the 3000 euro SMA Sunny Island.
    SMA have not responded / answered my enquiry on HOW MUCH DC COUPLING the Sunny Island can actually Take/ accept.



    This Posting on this Forum is to help others in the Future who purchase/own this Particular type of Sunny Island. And where they have DC Coupling, (PV, Turbines that direct charge the Batteries the SI is running from), and also use the SI’s AC Coupling, (Sunny Boys Grid Tied Inverters, connected to the SI’s 230vac 50HZ Created Mini Grid) . For further information see, http://www.navitron.org.uk/for…ex.php/topic,24455.0.html


    My Observations on the Sunny Island 6 SI6,OH-11, New, purchased 2014, European Market 50HZ.
    Problem, 50HZ leaps to 60HZ, SI6,OH-11, (2014) Battery Current Sensor Shunt.
    At present I have enough PV DC coupled sources to charge my 1100ah 48v bank of batteries, but it might be nice to use the SI sometimes especially as I add more AC Coupling in the future as it can also take AC and back charge the 48vdc batteries.


    With my particular SI6,OH-11, (2014) when entering the type and values of the Shunt into the SI software I noticed it is factory set at 100amp 50mv or 60mv, now obviously I set this to 250amp at 60mv to match my physical shunt itself.


    However, what I find is during the shut down and restart procedures when installing the shunt, the shunt setting can revert back to a factory setting.


    So you think everything is going to be okay, then a little bit of DC coupling, in this instance only 40amps, and this software bit with the Shunt throws the SI Inverter from 50Hz straight to 60Hz mode, it does not climb steadily, no, it just jumps up to 60HZ.


    SO......If you are going to have a lot of DC Coupling, and for me it could be as much as 150amps, .........Then.......DURING THE BATTERY CURRENT SENSOR SET UP, PLEASE ENSURE THE SETTING FOR YOUR ACTUAL SHUNT MATCHES THE SETTINGS IN THE SOFTWARE, AND THAT THE SOFTWARE SETTING HAS NOT REVERTED TO A FACTORY SETTING, as mine kept doing.


    My lasts set up I ended up doing it twice, and I keep checking, and its holding, so far....... fingers crossed!.


    I can now understand why SMA are not particular interested as DC Coupling, as it is not their ball game, and the SI was meant to blend/join in with their AC products.


    But Importantly perhaps a little more information in their manual about DC Coupling, source connections etc, might have been helpful for some of us. Instead we have got the European & Australian Forums guiding us along.
    So that's the TRIGGER FAULT, WATCH THAT FACTORY DEFAULTS SETTING.

    Everything is Possible, Just give me Time.
    5kW PV Trackers, 3off HughP 3.7m dia Wind Turbines, 2.5kW PV. SI6,SB3800,SB3000,SB1200 Midnite Cnt, Tristar MPPT cnt, 3 off PWM Tristar Cnt, 48vdc 1100ah VRLA.

  • I understand you perfectly, but have in mind that it's not possible to explain everything you are not allowed to do in a manual or it will be bigger and heavier than the inverter itself. Also see, for example, competitors manuals as Victron MultiPlus, so you will see how complete the SI manual actually is.
    From my point of view, the vendor of the SI should have informed you about it.
    Regarding the jumping to 60 Hz, actually its not jumping, but it's very fast shifting step by step so it may seem to be jumping for slow human eyes...
    Anyway, you can try what I told you about using the diversion mode (diverting excess power with the builtin relay), this should work.
    Regarding limit of DC coupling, there is no defined limit. 100 W of DC power can be too much if there is no consumption at this point of time and the battery is fully charged. On the other hand you gan put lots of kW to the DC side if you take care about proper communication bewtween SI and DC sources (like explained for Midnite Solar charge controllers you have the MNSICOMM module, then the SI will perfecly tell the Midnite conrollers to reduce production before starting to shift frequency).
    Also telling you that if you have a wind turbine, you need to have some kind of diversion for excess power (normally integrated in the DC-charge controller of the wind-turbine), as else the batteries might get overcharged.

  • Thanks PV-Insel,


    Regards my 30ff Wind turbines, I have 3off PWM Tristar Controllers that are set up to dump excess voltage, they can dump to Air heaters 6kW.
    All my DC Charging controllers are set to the same charginging regime, ie, the same Absorp, Bulk, Float.


    Thanks about the Midnite interface circuit/software for the SI, However after consideration of the problems we here at our comminuty project are having with the SMA Sunny Island6 we have decided to De-commission the SI, (Auberbetriebnahme) and fit a used/second hand APC 10000va UPS 230vac Inverter.


    We just can not keep installing more equipment to keep the SI working properly, we just do not have the funds/money.


    So the SMA Sunny Island is entsorgen.


    Thanks you for your help.

    Everything is Possible, Just give me Time.
    5kW PV Trackers, 3off HughP 3.7m dia Wind Turbines, 2.5kW PV. SI6,SB3800,SB3000,SB1200 Midnite Cnt, Tristar MPPT cnt, 3 off PWM Tristar Cnt, 48vdc 1100ah VRLA.

  • Hi,


    Follow up information.


    The Sunny Island was returned to SMA.


    I am Disappointed to what commercial machines are available, and there poor performances and poor operating parameters unless you have specialised manufacturers tied in equipment......So, I made my own Inverter.


    With the help of "Oztules" ...... http://www.anotherpower.com/bo…7jd5l4edljl6k4ls18pgfj4i1 and other specialised folk from around the World. I made my own 6kW-15kW OzInverter, named after the 'Oztules' John Tullock, Flinders Island, Tasmania.


    I have now published a book, 100's of photographs, on how to make your own OzInverter, and I also supply the required PCB boards and the PCB making masks, for the 6-15kW Power Board, The OzControl Board, and the OzCooling Board.
    We here at Echorenovate are not a commercial organization so we just require the printing, postage + packing, and PCB manufacturing costs.


    The Inverter is basically open source on several Worldwide Forums, I have condensed all information on the machine and it can be made anywhere, relatively easy for anyone who understands a little electronics, electrical installations and some engineering skills.


    The OzInverter IS NOT A TOY it does 6kW to 15kW and surge at 50kW that's if your batteries can take the loads.


    We use a 30kg silicone iron core torroid, I give the mathematics for cross section of any core size, so you can wind the secondary and primary for correct saturation levels, we stack the toroid cores and resin bond the secondary and use a single low turns primary, so we can force cool the toroid if required.


    We have the running/idle power use down to 45W. We can back charge through the OzInverter to charge batteries when the OzInverter is AC coupled. We use the slight rise in the AC output when the batteries are filling up to shut the Ac Coupled GTI's down. We finish charging the batteries with DC source controllers.


    The OzInverter is simple, the Electronics are simple, we have designed the Inverter so all parts are readily obtainable anywhere in the World, and even better.... the OzInverter is very cost effective to build with material cost about $700. Even cheaper is you scavenge large toroids form broken GTI's and strip them down.


    I trust this New OzInverter project helps others.


    http://www.echorenovate.com/ne…--make-a-6kw-inverter.php


    Thank you.

    Everything is Possible, Just give me Time.
    5kW PV Trackers, 3off HughP 3.7m dia Wind Turbines, 2.5kW PV. SI6,SB3800,SB3000,SB1200 Midnite Cnt, Tristar MPPT cnt, 3 off PWM Tristar Cnt, 48vdc 1100ah VRLA.

  • Gogle Übersetzung .....
    Hallo zusammen,
    Follow-up-Informationen.
    Der Sunny Island wurde auf SMA zurück.


    Ich bin enttäuscht, welche kommerziellen Maschinen zur Verfügung stehen, und es schlechten Leistungen und schlechten Betriebsparameter, sofern Sie Gerätehersteller in gebunden Fach Haben ...... Also, ich meine eigenen Inverter gemacht.
    Mit Hilfe von "Oztules" ...... http://www.anotherpower.com/bo…7jd5l4edljl6k4ls18pgfj4i1 und andere spezialisierte Leute aus der ganzen Welt. Ich habe meine eigene 6kW-15kW OzInverter, benannt nach dem 'Oztules' John Tullock, Flinders Island, Tasmanien.


    Ich habe jetzt ein Buch, 100 von Fotos veröffentlicht, wie Sie Ihre eigenen OzInverter zu machen, und ich liefern die benötigten auch Leiterplatten und die PCB Herstellung von Masken für die 6-15kW Power Board, The OzControl Vorstand und dem Vorstand OzCooling.
    Wir hier bei Echorenovate sind keine kommerzielle Organisation, so dass wir nur den Druck, Porto + Verpackung erfordern, und PCB-Herstellungskosten.
    Der Wechselrichter ist Open Source auf mehreren Grundsätzlich Worldwide Foren, ich kondensiert haben alle Informationen über die Maschine und kann es überall gemacht werden, relativ einfach für jedermann, der es versteht, ein wenig Elektronik, Elektroinstallationen und einige technische Fähigkeiten.
    Die OzInverter ist kein Spielzeug tut es 6 kW bis 15 kW und 50 kW entsteht an das ist, wenn Sie Ihre Batterien, die Lasten zu nehmen.


    Wir verwenden 30kg Silikon Eisenkern Toroid, gebe ich die Mathematik für Querschnitt jeder Kerngröße, so dass Sie die sekundären und primären für die richtige Konzentration Sättigung Wind, wir die Ringkerne und Harzbindung der sekundären und verwenden einen einzigen niedrigen Wendungen stapeln primäre, so können wir die Torus Kraft kühlen, falls erforderlich.
    Wir haben den Lauf / Leerlaufstromverbrauch bis zu 45W. Wir können durch die OzInverter laden zurück Batterien aufzuladen Wenn die OzInverter ist AC-gekoppelt. Wir verwenden den leichten Anstieg der Ausgang AC Wenn die Batterien geschlossen füllen bis zum Ac GTI nach unten gekoppelt ist. Wir beenden die Batterien Mit Controller DC Ladequelle.


    Die OzInverter ist einfach, die Elektronik sind einfach, wir haben den Umrichter so ausgelegt, alle Teile sind leicht überall erhältlich in der Welt, und noch besser .... die OzInverter ist sehr kostengünstig mit Materialkosten über $ 700 zu bauen. Noch günstiger ist es, Ihnen scavenge große toroids gebrochen GTI bilden und sie auszuziehen.


    Ich vertraue darauf, esta New OzInverter Projekt anderen hilft.
    http://www.echorenovate.com/ne…--make-a-6kw-inverter.php

    Danke.